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(http://www.fordtruckclub.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=145)
-   -   Eliminate power steering (http://www.fordtruckclub.net/forum/showthread.php?t=6026)

WORLDWITHIN@VERIZON.NET December 3rd, 2011 02:44 PM

Eliminate power steering
 
HI,IM NEW. I LIVE IN FL. I HAVE A 1994 RANGER 4 CYL. I WANT TO REMOVE MY A/C AND POWER STEERING. I KNOW THERE IS A SMALLER SERPINTINE BELT. MY QUESTION/PROBLEM HAS TO DO WITH THE POWER STEERING.
IF YOU JUST STOP THE BELT TO A POWER STEERING PUMP ,THEN THE STEERING EFFORT IS MORE THAN RAMBO-LIKE. SO ONE SOLUTION IS TO CHANGE THE WORM BOX TO A MANUAL WITH MORE TURNING FORCE.
I WONDER IF THERE ARE ANY OTHER METHODS ? IF I DRAIN THE FLUID TO THE P/S BOX THEN THERE WOULD BE NO FLUID FEEDBACK TO THE PUMP. WOULD THAT ALLOW THE STEERING EFFORT TO BE REASONABLE ? ALSO,COULD A PERSON CHANGE THE GEARING INSIDE A P/S WORM BOX TO GIVE MORE LEVERAGE ?
I WOULD APPRECIATE ANY ADVICE ON THIS ISSUE. THANKS jim

DoubleDee December 3rd, 2011 03:03 PM

Howdy Jim, welcome to the family!

I don't think draining the P/S would allow a reasonable steering effort. Since the system is a hydraulic one, it's not meant to be used sans fluid.

Just to clarify, if you do the p/s draining, you won't have the serpentine connected to the pump right?

I don't know about changing out the worm box for more leverage.

WORLDWITHIN@VERIZON.NET December 3rd, 2011 03:13 PM

I PLAN TO BUY THE SERP BELT THAT DRIVES ONLY THE ALTERNATOR AND FAN. I WANT THE A/C AND P/S GONE. LESS COMPLEXITY AND GETTER MILEAGE. I LIKE TO DEVO AUTOMOBILES- LIGHTEN THEM UP. I EVEN USE A WICKER PASSENGER SEAT. CRAZY, I KNOW. THANKS FOR REPLY. jim

Russo2 December 3rd, 2011 08:03 PM

There is literally not enough to be gained by deleting a pump to gain hp or mileage.
If working correctly these pumps have little to no drag on them. Keep the pump in good shape and it won't be sticking robbing your hp or mpg.

JSoko December 3rd, 2011 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russo2 (Post 48496)
There is literally not enough to be gained by deleting a pump to gain hp or mileage.
If working correctly these pumps have little to no drag on them. Keep the pump in good shape and it won't be sticking robbing your hp or mpg.

:iagree: but, there again your talking to a guy that put in a wicker seat

Booba5185 December 8th, 2011 11:58 PM

The only time power steering takes any noticeable amount of power is when you are turning, and the pump has to generate more pressure to turn the wheels. So basically the only time you'd notice a power increase is if you were doing figure 8s. Even then, it wouldn't be all that much power.

Russo2 December 9th, 2011 12:26 AM

And who wants to try to do a figure 8 with no power steering? Dude's gunna have a trucker wheel in there with a handicap knob and well there goes the weight loss from a wicker seat, eh?
Reminds me of the ricers removing their back seat for weight reduction.. I digress.

JSoko December 9th, 2011 05:11 AM

we call them knobs on the steering wheel, suicide knobs

WORLDWITHIN@VERIZON.NET December 11th, 2011 11:14 PM

I APPRECIATE THE COMMENTS. LET ME GIVE AN UPDATE. I INSTALLED THE SMALLER SERP. BELT AND ELIMINATED THE A/C AND P/S PUMP. I HAD READ AND EXPERIENCED THAT OLDER P/S SYSTEMS WHEN DISABLED WOULD HAVE A LOT OF PLAY IN THE STEERING WHEEL. HOWEVER ,BY 1994, THE P/S SYSTEM DOES NOT DO THIS. THERE IS NO PLAY.
STEERING EFFORT WAS MODERATELY HIGH AT SPEEDS BELOW 10 MPH. THEN IT FELT EXACTLY NORMAL AND SIMILIAR TO BEFORE DISABLE MODE. WHEN I REMOVE THE FLUID CONNECTION TO THE PUMP ,I MAY EXPERIENCE EVEN LESS EFFORT AT THE BELOW 10 MPH RANGE.
I AM ALSO CHECKING ABOUT ACQUIRING A MANUAL RECIRCULATING GEARBOX.I TRIED ADVANCE AND PARTS GEEK. ADVANCE WOULD NOT TAKE MY POWER BOX AS A CORE CHARGE AND DID NOT THINK THAT MY A MANUAL WOULD JUST BOLT UP TO MY TRUCKS FRAME. PARTS GEEK WILL GET BACK TO ME ABOUT SAME ? THIS WEEK.
A PICTURE OF THE MANUAL BOX SHOWS 3 BOLTS IN ABOUT AN EQUAL TRIANGLE. MY TRUCK FRAME HAS 3 BOLTS, BUT NOT IN AN EQUAL TRIANGLE. THE SPECS ON THE MANUAL SHOW AN 3/4 INCH OUTPUT SHAFT, MINE APPEARS TO BE 7/8 INCHES. ANSO THERE IS A SPLINE COUNT INVOLVED IN THE SPECS. SO, BOTTOM LINE -THIS MAY NOT BE AN EASY BOLT-ON SWITCH.
THIS IS WHY I WAS HOPING THAT SOMEONE IN YOUR CLUB HAD DONE THIS BEFORE MYSELF. I WILL SEND ANOTHER MSG TO JUSTIFY MY REASONING BEHIND THIS PERCEIVE - OU OF BOX-THINKING. THANKS, jim

HawaiianF150 December 12th, 2011 01:09 AM

yikes - not even with a ten foot pole....

WORLDWITHIN@VERIZON.NET December 12th, 2011 07:36 PM

I mainly wanted to get rid of the a/c ,but because the only other serp belt was w/o a/c and p/s ; i had to lose both or keep both. And from a theoretical position i like the concept of "kiss" engineering. Complexities increase malfunctions. There is the classic nasa study to create a ball pt pen that would work in zero gravity. It was difficult engineering. The russians simply used a pencil-very "kiss" .russian mig landing gears were one time gas charges that weighed much less than us fighters. Etc,etc

WORLDWITHIN@VERIZON.NET December 12th, 2011 07:43 PM

I have at least 4 reasons for switching power to manual steering.
#1 Have you ever changed the plugs on a Ranger? I did and I cursed the a/c while trying to get at the 1st and 2nd plugs.The next time I do a comp test or need new plugs ,the job will be very much easier.
#2 I forgot to mention that the A/C system was bad anyway. My truck is not very valuable so I did not want to put either parts or time in its repair.

HawaiianF150 December 12th, 2011 07:48 PM

I once had a camaro and getting to the rear plugs was a nightmare until i drilled a 1 1/2" hole through the firewall for a socket and extenstion. Afterwards I covered the hole with a rubber grommet and there was peace in the land.

WORLDWITHIN@VERIZON.NET December 12th, 2011 07:49 PM

#3 The engine compartment of a Ranger is very crowded. hoses and excess wires everywhere. When I remove the entire A/c system, i will actually be able to see the essential elements and work on them. A fringe benefit will be I can try to sell the A/C parts to someone who wants them. I have never tried Craigs list before ,so that will be an experience.

WORLDWITHIN@VERIZON.NET December 12th, 2011 07:52 PM

camaro plug solution- yes, thats "kiss" and American creativity.

nine5flareside December 12th, 2011 09:23 PM

:gasp: WTH!

JSoko December 12th, 2011 09:53 PM

... and there was peace in the land, :drunk_buds:

WORLDWITHIN@VERIZON.NET December 13th, 2011 08:38 PM

#4 tHIS IS PRETTY TECHNICAL. iT HAS TO DO WITH VEHICLE CENTER OF MASS. fOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU HAVE A VEHICLE AND IT GOES 0-60 IN SAY 9 SECS. tHEN YOU CHANGE ONLY THE MOTOR MOUNTS SO THAT THE ENGINE NOT SITS-SAY 2 IN LOWER : NOW THE VEHICLE IS FASTER, SAY 0-60 IN 8.8 SECS. iTS WHY SPORTS CARS ARE FAST FOR THIER RELATIVELY SMALL ENGINE SIZE. WHY HORIZONTALLY OPPOSED ENGINES LIKE THE VW, SUBARU, AND BMW MOTORCYCLE ARE RELATIVELY FAST.
IT ALSO IMPROVES HANDLING AND BRAKING BY LOWERING THE CENTER OF MASS. ALSO, ONE REASON WHY PEOPLE LOWER CARS AND TRUCKS.
THE A/C COMPRESSOR IS RELATIVELY HEAVY AND IS AT THE TOP OF THE ENGINE .SAME WITH THE P/S PUMP. ALSO , I LIKE TO CHANGE OUT GLASS WINDOWS WHICH ARE HEAVY AND HIGH FOR PLEXIGLAS WINDOWS. BETTER TO CHANGE HIGH WINDOW WEIGHT THAN LOW WEIGHT LIKE BUMPERS.

WORLDWITHIN@VERIZON.NET December 13th, 2011 08:39 PM

#5 Just general elimination of complexity. The less complex, the more reliable. My pet peeves are things like electrically adjustable side mirrors, auto dimming high beams, auto night mirror position. I have a Lincoln LSC that has a auto rear mirror and it was heavy and it would go into an oscillation whenever headlights hit it. It was humorous for a while.
Little things like my ranger had a hood light which i removed. i will also soon get rid of my glove box light. Because i carry a trouble light and a flashlight to read a map. Why should i take a chance on my glove box wires shorting together and running down my battery. My flashlight wont ever have that problem-and has other uses.
Just a personal philosophy.
so, thats basically the reasons why I want to change from power steering to manual. I hope that someone comes to this forum who has done this in the past. So, for now I will just plug away at it and see where it takes me. Thanks, ----- jim

HawaiianF150 December 13th, 2011 10:17 PM

Why do i feel like a bb on a four lane hwy?

WORLDWITHIN@VERIZON.NET December 29th, 2011 02:08 PM

AS AN UPDATE - I DID ELIMINATE THE A/C AND P/S PUMP FROM MY SERPINTINE BELT. STEERING EFFORT WAS SOMEWHAT DIFFICULT BUT, AT 10 MPH IT BECAME VERY MANAGEABLE. I REMOVED MY A/C. NEXT I WILL REMOVE THE P/S PUMP.I PLAN ON TAKING THE INPUT LINE TO THE STEERING BOX AND RUNNING IT INTO THE OUTPUT LINE.
I NEED TO KEEP THE BOX LUBRICATED. LATER I MAY REMOVE THE P/S FLUID AND PUT IN MOTOR OIL OR SOMETHING THICKER. I AM NOT SURE ABOUT THIS ? HAS ANYONE DONE THIS BEFORE ? DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY ,CONSTRUCTIVE, SUGGESTIONS ?
I WOULD APPRECIATE ANY THOUGHTFUL IDEAS. --- jim

JSoko December 29th, 2011 02:43 PM

I like the hose loop idea, just make sure the threads are compatiable

leave the P/S fluid in there over useing oil
some gears and clutches prefer the fluid typically an ATF of the correct Type, be it Type 'F', Dexron, Mercron or Mercron II; then ya got some fro GM & Chrysler use

For those that dont know just as in Brake Fluid all ATF's are not compatiable

how dose the belt situation turning out, as in did you go with differant size belts to find the right one ?

WORLDWITHIN@VERIZON.NET December 29th, 2011 07:58 PM

OK THANKS,J - I WILL GO WITH LEAVING THE P/S FLUID IN. THE FACTORY AND AFTER MARKET PEOPLE PRODUCE 2 LENGTHS OS SERP BELT. ONE LONG ONE FOR WITH A/C AND P/S AND ONE SHORTER ONE FOR WITHOUT A/C AND P/S. SO THAT PART WAS EASY ,I BOUGHT THE SHORTER ONE AND IT INSTALLED EASILY AND I'M RUNNING IT RIGHT NOW.
I WILL ALSO TRY TO GET 13 INCH WHEELS THAT ARE RELATIVELY NARROW FOR LESS WT AND STEERING EFFORT. I HAVE NOTICED THAT SOME CHRYSLER WHEELS HAVE THE SAME BOLT PATTERN BUT A LARGER AXLE (CENTER ) HOLE. I THINK THAT THERE ARE ADAPTERS MADE BY THE AFTER MARKET TO MAKE A LARGE CENTER HOLE SMALLER. BUT, I HAVE TO READ UP ON THIS OR CHECK AT A JUNK YARD ?
I THANK YOU ------ jim

JSoko December 29th, 2011 08:21 PM

wheel adapters can spell trouble; when you change steering geometry your asking for trouble, stay with the stock wheels
meaning most outset the wheel to a uncomfortable stance/strain
causing ball joint wear amoungest other issues

WORLDWITHIN@VERIZON.NET January 5th, 2012 07:06 PM

I agree,but i didnt mean adapters in the sense of- for example, the large heavy plates with lug bolts that changed the vw bug pattern to a chevy pattern to allow larger, wider wheels.
I should have said "inserts" which go in the wheel center hole to allow one wheel with a certain lug pattern to go on another vehicle with a smaller center hole. I know the tire repair people use these. But, i am not fully knowledgeable about them.

nine5flareside January 5th, 2012 07:41 PM

What exactly is the point of all of this?

Russo2 January 5th, 2012 08:19 PM

Hotrod :headbang:
Just kidding I have no idea.
caps lock is fun though.

JSoko January 5th, 2012 11:10 PM

"for less wt and steering effort"

WORLDWITHIN@VERIZON.NET January 6th, 2012 11:55 AM

I WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS THE "WHATS THE POINT" . I UNDERSTOOD THAT THIS WAS A FORUM FOR EXCHANGE OF KNOWLEDGE ABOUT VEHICLES IN GENERAL, AND RANGERS IN PARTICULAR. LIKE THE SONG SAYS - I COME HERE SEEKING KNOWLEDGE.
INCIDENTALLY I LEARNED TO USE ALL CAPS BECAUSE IT IS STANDARD PRACTICE IN THE ACCOUNTING AND TAX PROFESSION.
IM SORRY IF I OFFENDED ANYONE, BUT I ONLY KNOW SOME THINGS ABOUT THE MECHANICS OF VEHICLES. IF I KNEW EVERYTHING ABOUT VEHICLES, THEN I WOULD NOT BE HERE, I COULD JUST CONCENTRATE ON WRITING A BOOK ---( IN ALL CAPS )
THANKS, ------ jim

nine5flareside January 6th, 2012 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WORLDWITHIN@VERIZON.NET (Post 49929)
I WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS THE "WHATS THE POINT" . I UNDERSTOOD THAT THIS WAS A FORUM FOR EXCHANGE OF KNOWLEDGE ABOUT VEHICLES IN GENERAL, AND RANGERS IN PARTICULAR. LIKE THE SONG SAYS - I COME HERE SEEKING KNOWLEDGE.
INCIDENTALLY I LEARNED TO USE ALL CAPS BECAUSE IT IS STANDARD PRACTICE IN THE ACCOUNTING AND TAX PROFESSION.
IM SORRY IF I OFFENDED ANYONE, BUT I ONLY KNOW SOME THINGS ABOUT THE MECHANICS OF VEHICLES. IF I KNEW EVERYTHING ABOUT VEHICLES, THEN I WOULD NOT BE HERE, I COULD JUST CONCENTRATE ON WRITING A BOOK ---( IN ALL CAPS )
THANKS, ------ jim

I hope no one was offended by the caps... that's silly if someone is.

As far as me asking "what's the point" , it's just a bit odd what you are doing BUT it is your truck so I was just curious what was the point of what you are doing?

We don't judge, just question! :smilez:

WORLDWITHIN@VERIZON.NET January 6th, 2012 05:25 PM

I thought i had written 5 reasons for -eliminate p/s. It got very wordy in some of the reasons. But, i saw that it got lost in the ether / cloud somehow, probably my fault.
So, ill give a short version of reason #1 - i wanted to lose a/c ,it needed repair and i am moving to tn. Soon. To lose a/c i had to get a smaller serpentine belt. Only 2 sizes are made. So, i installed that ,removed a/c and i am now removing p/s. Some steering effort under 10 mph. Over ok. I will put the steering gear box hoses together. I may later get a manual gearbox. I ask anyone if these 2 boxes will bolt up same-same to frame. Maybe different splines. So, i will attempt to go to manual later. Too busy now.

JSoko January 6th, 2012 08:55 PM

not sure about the steering box and I'm curious to know if they are interchangeable

Jim, I dont like the idea of the 13" wheels, with the smaller diameter & shorter circumfurance on the rear you will be changing the final drive ratio, to a lower ratio as in a possible 4:11 (useing more fuel) also speedo will read faster speed not to mention the computer trying to compensate for this causing an over fuel problem with you spendig more time at the pump
I would suggest find some alloy wheels (keep the rolling mass weight down) in the stock size and run as narrow a street tire as possible with extra air pressure (helps rolling resistance), trying to stay with the same height as stock (you may have to jockey with the middle size number 75, 70, 65)

staying with the same height tire as stock is one key to economy

WORLDWITHIN@VERIZON.NET January 7th, 2012 01:32 PM

THANK YOU, SPIRITWALKER (COOL HANDLE ). I WILL ONLY GO 13 INCH ON THE FRONT.
I WILL LEAVE THE REAR AT 14 INCH.( OR IF ANYTHING I WOULD GO TO 16 INCH ) MY WIFE BOUGHT 4 NEW TIRES FOR HER 16 IN TOY HIGHLANDER AND I HAD HER KEEP THE TIRES FOR ME - STILL LOTS OF TREAD.
I DONT CARE ABOUT THE SPEEDOMETER- I ACTUALLY DROVE A CAR FOR ABOUT 3 YEARS WITH A BROKEN SPEEDOMETER. AND I WAS ABOUT 25 YRS OLD. SPEEDING ON A PUBLIC ROAD IS A FOOLS GAME. I LIKE TO ACCELERATE FROM A LIGHT UP TO THE SPEED LIMIT-SAY 45 THEN LEVEL OFF..
A FEW YEARS AGO I HAD A POLICE BUILT 1975 AMC MATADOR. IT WAS A REAL SLEEPER. 400 CUBIC IN ENGINE. I TOOK OFF ALL THE MODEL NAMES ETC.SO, PEOPLE WOULD STARE - THINKING "WHAT IS THAT,A BIG CAMERO ?" A BEAT LOTS OF HONDAS THAT WOULD REV -UP AT A LIGHT. I WOULD BEAT THEM TO 45 MPH AND THEN THEY WOULD PASS ME WITH A FROWN ON THEIR FACE AND THEN THEY WOULD BE SPEEDING AND WOULD JUST HAVE A SLY GRIN. I GOT BEATEN BY A CORVETTE AND ,I BELIEVE, A MITSUBITSIE ONCE. PLENTY OF OTHER VEHICLES COULD HAVE BEATEN ME BUT IT ONLY HAPPEN A FEW TIMES THAT I WOULD LINE UP AT A LIGHT WITH SOMEONE THAT WANTED TO STREET RACE. INCIDENTALLY, I HAD STANDARD (14IN - I THINK ) ON THE FRONT AND I WENT TO A JUNK YARD AND GOT 2 REAR WHEELS AND TIRES THAT WERE SO TALL THEY BARELY FIT IN THE WHEEL WELL.
SO, I DIGRESSED - I HAVE A QUESTION , THE 70, 75 65 ETC. RING SIZES ? DOES THAT MEAN THE WHEEL/AXLE CENTER HOLE ? AND IF SO IS THAT IN MM ? AND DOES THAT RELATE TO MY ? ABOUT INSERTS ? THANKS, jim

WORLDWITHIN@VERIZON.NET January 7th, 2012 05:31 PM

I HAVE ANOTHER INTERESTING THING ABOUT MY CURRENT RANGER TIRES AND WHEELS. I HAVE 4 CAST ALUMINUM WHEELS WITH P215/70 14 IN TIRES ON THEM. THEN I HAVE 1 SPARE FACTORY STEEL SPARE WITH P225/70/14 TIRES.
I WEIGHED THEM BOTH. THE ALUMINUM CAST WERE 39 LBS AND THE STEEL SPARE WAS 42 LBS. I EXPECTED A BIGGER DIFFERENCE WITH THE ALUM MUCH LIGHTER. IT DID NOT HAPPEN.
I READ A RECENT ARTICLE THAT STATED THAT THE REAL ADVANTAGE OF CAST ALUMINUM WAS THEY WERE ABLE TO BE MANUFACTURED TO GREATER ,CONSISTENT SPECS THAN STEEL WHEELS. THEN IT SAID THAT RIGHT NOW THE STEEL WHEELS CAN BE MADE AS CONSISTENT AS CAST ALUMINUM. IT SAID THAT THE BIG CAR COMPANYS WANT TO SWITCH TO STEEL NOW (TO SAVE $ /CAR ). BUT, THEY MUST UNLEARN THE CUSTOMERS FIXED IDEA THAT CAST IS BETTER. INTERESTING. THANKS, --- jim

JSoko January 7th, 2012 08:15 PM

"THE 70, 75 65 ETC" ; is the height of the sidewall
75 being the tallest and lower #'s shorter
that # is like your P215/70/14; a P215/75/14 would be a taller tire
I was trying to get at ratio change due to tire height

HawaiianF150 January 7th, 2012 11:34 PM

1 Attachment(s)
How To Read Your Tire

You should always use the correct tire for the vehicle. The correct tire size, air pressure and load ratings can be located on a sticker usually located on the driver side door/door jam or in the vehicles manual.
Most modern passenger car and light truck tires feature size designations that indicate the tire's dimensions in a combination of metric, mathematical and English systems. While this unusual combination of millimeters, percentages and inches is a byproduct of the evolution of global tire specifications, it also provides the ability to calculate/estimate basic tire dimensions.

See The Atttached Picture Below:

Example size: 215/70R14
The first three numbers in a typical size (215/70R14) are the tire's indicated section width in millimeters, measured from sidewall to sidewall.

If you are familiar with measurements in inches, the section width in millimeters can be converted into inches by dividing it by 25.4.
For example: 215mm / 25.4 = 8.5"

The second pair of numbers (215/70R14) is the tire's aspect ratio or profile.
This is a ratio of sidewall height to section width.
The section height's measurement can be calculated by multiplying the section width by the aspect ratio. The answer will be the height of one sidewall.

For example:
215mm x 0.45 = 96.75
8.85" x 0.45 = 3.825" (ratio of sidewall height to section width which is the height of one sidewall)

The last number (215/70R14) is the diameter of the wheel in inches.

If you are familiar with measurements in the metric system, the wheel diameter can be converted into millimeters by multiplying it by 25.4. For example: 14" x 25.4 = 355.6mm

To calculate the overall diameter of a tire, the sidewall height must be multiplied by 2 (remembering that the tire diameter is made up of 2 sidewalls, the one above the wheel and the one below the wheel touching the ground) and add the diameter of the wheel.

For example: 96.75 (top sidewall height in mm above the wheel/rim) plus 96.75 (bottom sidewall height in mm below the wheel/rim) equals [COLOR="red"193.5 [/COLOR] [/COLOR]
[COLOR="red"193.5 [/COLOR][/COLOR]
[COLOR="red"193.5 [/COLOR]When we add into the measurement your wheel / rim size we get the total diameter of the tire and wheel/rim which is 355.6mm (your 14in wheel size) to your sidewall measurements of 193.5 it all equals 549.1mm or [/B] in inches it is 3.825" + 3.825" + 14" = 21.65"

When working with close fitment tolerances or trying to maintain the original tire diameter of staggered sizes (similarities or differences) you should always use the tire manufacturer's specifications for the exact tire(s) you are considering.

Actual Tire Section Width is Dependent on Wheel Width
All tire sizes are assigned specific rim widths upon which they are measured (measuring rim), as well as can often be mounted on slightly narrower or wider wheels (rim width range). Therefore, it is important to note that actual tire section width will depend on the wheel width the tire is mounted on. The rule of thumb is that tire section width changes by 0.2" for every 0.5" change in rim width, being reduced if mounted on narrower then measuring wheel and increased when mounted on wider wheels.

HawaiianF150 January 8th, 2012 12:44 AM

2 Attachment(s)
DETERMINING TIRE MANUFACTURE DATE

Refer to the attachments below.

The U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) requires that Tire Identification Numbers be a combination of the letters DOT, followed by ten, eleven or twelve letters and/or numbers that identify the manufacturing location, tire size and manufacturer's code, along with the week and year the tire was manufactured.

Tires Manufactured 2000 and Later...

Since 2000, the week and year the tire was produced has been provided by the last four digits of the Tire Identification Number with the 2 digits being used to identify the week immediately preceding the 2 digits used to identify the year.

DOT U2LL LMLR 5107 - Manufactured during the 51st week of the year
DOT U2LL LMLR 5107 - Manufactured during 2007

Tires Manufactured Before 2000...

The Tire Identification Number for tires produced prior to 2000 was based on the assumption that tires would not be in service for ten years.

While they were required to provided the same information as today’s tires, the week and year the tire was produced was contained in the last three digits. The 2 digits used to identify the week a tire was manufactured immediately preceded a single digit used to identify the year.

DOT EJ8J DFM 408 - Manufactured during the 40<SUP>th</SUP> week of the year <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-
DOT EJ8J DFM 408 - Manufactured during the 8<SUP>th</SUP> year of the decade <o:p></o:p>
*** Tires produced in the 1990s may have a small triangle following the Tire Identification Number to identify the decade.***<o:p></o:p>

HawaiianF150 January 8th, 2012 12:57 AM

LOAD RANGE/PLY RATING IDENTIFICATION

The load range or ply rating branded on a tire's sidewall helps identify how much load the tire is designed to carry at its industry specified pressure. Passenger tires feature named load ranges while light truck tires use load ranges that ascend in alphabetical order (letters further along in the alphabet identify stronger tires that can withstand higher inflation pressures and carry heavier loads).

Before load ranges were adopted, ply ratings and/or the actual number of carcass plies were used to identify the relative strength with higher numeric ratings or plies identifying tires featuring stronger, heavier duty constructions.

Today's load range/ply ratings do not count the actual number of body ply layers used to make up the tire's internal structure, but indicate an equivalent strength compared to early bias ply tires.

Most radial passenger tires have one or two body plies, and light truck tires, even those with heavy-duty ratings (10-, 12- or 14-ply rated), actually have only two or three fabric plies, or one steel body ply. In all cases, when changing tire sizes or converting from one type of size to another, it is important to confirm that the Load Index in the tire's Service Description of the new tire is equal to or greater than the Load Index of the original tire.

Light Truck Tires
Since light truck tires are often available in multiple load ranges; the appropriate load range is identified immediately following the size's rim diameter.

LT-Metric, LT-Flotation and LT-Numeric tires are branded with their load range (Load Range E or LRE) or their ply rating (10 Ply Rated) on their sidewalls and list their appropriate load range letter in their descriptions as LT245/75R-16 E, 7.50R-15 D or 31x10.50R-15 C.

Load Range Ply Rating Markings Max Load Pressure
B 4 B 35 psi (240 kPa)
C 6 C 50 psi (350 kPa)
D 8 D 65 psi (450 kPa)
E 10 E 80 psi (550 kPa)
E 10 E 80 psi (550 kPa)***
F 12 F 95 psi (650 kPa)***
***Selected large LT sizes are designed with reduced maximum load pressures

Speed Rating

Speed Rating tells you the maximum speed capability of a tire. Often speed ratings are matched to the top speed capability of the vehicle the tire is going on. For example, a tire with an H-speed rating has a maximum speed capability of 130 mph or 210 km/h.

Speed Rating Max MPH Typical Usage
M 81 mph
N 87 mph Spare Tires
P 93 mph
Q 99 mph Winter Tires
R 106 mph Truck Tires
S 112 mph Cars and Minivans
T 118 mph Cars and Minivans
U 124 mph Sport-Performance Cars
V 149 mph Sport-Performance Cars, High-Performance Cars
W 168 mph Ultra High-Performance Cars
Y 186 mph Ultra High-Performance Cars

UTQG stands for Uniform Tire Quality Grading, a rating system developed by the U.S. Department of Transportation to provide consumers with information to help them purchase tires based on their relative tread wear, traction and temperature capabilities.

Traction grades indicate the wet traction of a tire under a controlled test. A tire with an "AA" rating offers outstanding traction in wet conditions. Traction Grades: AA, A, B

Temperature grades indicate the ability of the tire to withstand and dissipate destructive heat. A tire with a higher temperature grade is able to operate at higher speeds. Temperature grades: A, B, C

Tread wear grades are based on standardized government tests to help predict the expected tread wear of a tire. For example, a tire with a tread wear grade of 200 should last twice as long as a tire with a tread wear grade of 100.

JSoko January 8th, 2012 10:58 AM

good tire info

another thing to watch out for useing a smaller rim would be the clearance for the upper & lower ball joint, if the rim has to much inset it may scrape

WORLDWITHIN@VERIZON.NET January 9th, 2012 05:15 PM

Jsoko- thanks, i will watch out for inboard clearance.
Hawaiian- fantastic ! I will print out and study the tire pages. Lots of good information there. I have never analysed tires that deeply and i should.
By the way-nice dog ! Is that a white german shepherd ? The ears look brown like maybe another breed ? I had a white shepherd a long time ago. Beautiful dog !


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