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Ford Truck Club Forum > THE LOUNGE > General Discussion



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  #1  
Old July 6th, 2012, 04:51 PM
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Default Mosin Nagant Thread

This'll be the thread where we dump the pics and video's of our Mosin Nagant 91/30's, also the M38's, M44's, and the Chinese Type 53 carbine's. You can also add the $100 Nagant 1895 Revolver if you have one to this thread. Also used for info and discussion of them.

Here is our first one, decided to go out and shoot it today, wanted to mess around with it so I could figure out the sights.

Here is the Ammo, Czech light ball 174gr Surplus Lacquer coated Steel cased Ammo:



The rifle:



1944 Izhevsk manufactured 1891/30.



Here is how the 5rds load one by one:





It's numbers matching except for the Hinged Floorplate, it's a strike through/force match:



This is the first 5rds from today, I was able to get a 2 shot group from 10yds:



Here is the 2 shot group:



2nd String of 5rds:



I was able to add one more bullet to the 2 shot group:



This is the closest I got to the Bullseye, open sighted, sights not adjusted yet:



So the next step is to get a picnic table setup in the back yard and get out my rest so I can really check out the sights and adjust them, plan on hunting hog with it and I don't want to miss.

Here is the Ammo I plan on hunting hog with:

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/136...la=ProductDesc



It's 203gr Bi-metal Soft Point.
  #2  
Old July 6th, 2012, 05:18 PM
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it does'nt matter if you hit the bullseye or not
the key is to aim at the same spot each time
and group your shots
it makes no difference where they are on the target or backstop
what you need to do it get a close shot group then adjust to the bull

move the rear sight in the direction you want the bullet to go as, raise the sight the bullet impact will be high
the front sight adjustment if avaliable will move the bullet impact in the opposit direction as, move front sight left the bullet impact moves right

now on most old miltary rifles the lowest rear sigh position will be for 100 or 200 yards

remember the fundamentals
a good steady rest
natural point of aim
breathing
trigger squeese

and you can save money and reuse the targets by putting tape over the holes
when I sight in I walk to the target and put a stick in the hole so I know where the next shot goes and this also gives the barrel time to cool, this is if I'm not use binoculars

a warm/hot barrel will cause shots to fly over an inch or more off


For Those Who Fought For It...
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  #3  
Old July 6th, 2012, 05:32 PM
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Thanks for the info!

I now have the bolt apart to clean it and oil it, gonna get some pics on how to take it apart and put it back together and check the firing pin protrusion.
  #4  
Old July 6th, 2012, 06:45 PM
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So, this is disassembling and reassembling a Mosin Nagant 91/30 bolt, M38's and M44's should be the same.

Here is the tool you should have received with your 91/30, this tool is important, with it you can take down the whole rifle, fix the bolt should something happen:



Here is our Bolt, how it comes out of the rifle is just a matter of opening it, pulling it back while in the chamber, then squeezing the trigger and pulling it back and it comes out:



What we're going to do is with the Bolt in our Left Hand, we're putting the Bolt Face against our thumb with the Bolt Handle in our fingers facing us:



Next, turn the de-cocker/safety knob towards you:



You can then slide the bolt face off, how it's done is the bolt face lifts up and twists then pulls straight off:



Here is our piece that rides in a slot in the chamber, it turns a little and pulls off:



Next we want to unscrew the firing pin, be careful, it is under spring tension, use the last notch on the tool for this:



Firing pin and Spring:



De-cocker/Safety Knob:



Main part of Bolt:



The Bolt can now be cleaned and oiled, but now how exactly does it go back together you ask?

The de-cocker/safety knob and main Bolt body have notches that line up like so:



Now I couldn't get a pic of this as it is hard as hell cause it requires two hands, while holding the de-cocker to the Bolt body like in the above pic, we insert the spring, then the firing pin, now flip it over where the firing pin is on the bottom still holding the de-cocker, take you're tool and with the last notch we want to put it on the slot on the firing pin, push the bolt and de-cocker down as far as it will go then turn the tool with your other hand until the threads catch the hole in the de-cocker, you'll know it's caught the threads when you lift if up and the firing pin stays fixed. Twist is all the way to the end, now if you look at you're de-cocker you'll notice there is an Index mark:



Our firing pin screw needs to line up with this mark.

Next, put the channel piece back on, it goes down, twists, then slides onto this raised notch:





Put the bolt face back on, it has slots and lines up as so:



You'll notice in this pic above the firing pin is sticking out of the bolt face, this is when we check our protrusion with the tool, using the second notch on the tool put it onto the firing pin, the firing pin should fit in the notch with the other two "fingers" where the other notches are resting on the bolt face, if it isn't you take the channel and the bolt face back off and turn the firing pin, just make sure it lines up with the notch, I've found that it lines up just below the end of the de-cocker knob. It is important that you check this BEFORE ever firing you're rifle, unless you like primer bits in you're face and teeth.

So with the bolt back in our hand like we were disassembling it again, apply a little pressure with the left hand and turn the de-cocker with you're right, you should hear a "snap" meaning it's back together.

  #5  
Old July 16th, 2012, 11:41 PM
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Doing another takedown of the Bolt tonight, I'm taking more pics, instead of oil I'm using white fishing reel grease. Back when these rifles were being used by the Red Army they used every kind of grease they could find, when I received this rifle there was motor oil in the oiling can.....
  #6  
Old July 17th, 2012, 04:07 AM
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There's even been instance's of gear oil...
  #7  
Old July 17th, 2012, 04:41 AM
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Kay, new(better) bolt disassembly pics, where to grease it, how to assemble the cleaning rod with the supplied tools, the tools that should come with you're rifle, and how to takedown the whole rifle with a single tool.

Starting with our bolt:



Turn the bolt to where the handle face's you:



Here is the bolt head, this is where we place our left thumb:



Hand placement:



Now, in the above pic, you'll notice the way the de-cocker is sitting, with you're right hand, and the way the bolt is in the pic, turn the de-cocker towards you, it will rotate and the bolt will look like this:



Here is the bolt facing you, and the way the de-cocker looks:



In this pic, at the very right you'll see a notch and a square piece of metal the that is slid in the notch:



Pull it towards the left and rotate the bolt head and the bolt head will separate from the bolt body:



Then remove the piece you slid(alternatively, you can remove this with the bolt head, but I prefer removing the bolt head just as a precaution):



Here is you're bolt body, firing pin, and de-cocker still attached:



The Mighty tool that does most everything for this rifle:



Now this next part was kinda tricky holding the camera, trying to take a pic, and holding the bolt body and tool on the firing pin, what you're going to do is, with the biggest notch on the tool, put it on the slotted end of the firing pin, then hold it and untwist the firing pin, remember that firing pin is under spring tension, DO NOT hold it near you're face, chest, or near anything you don't want to lose, or near anyone, as it could fly out of the bolt body, best way is point it towards you're work table, and turn it until it comes out, I hold the firing against the table:



Here is our bolt body completely disassembled and the de-cocker removed:



Firing pin and spring:



Bolt de-cocker:



Camming surface on the bolt body, this is one place you want to put grease:



Another camming surface:



Yet another:



Two of them on the de-cocker:



Now with everything clean and greased, we re-install everything, look a couple posts up on how to do that completely, and check you're firing pin protrusion, using the second notch on you're tool, it shouldn't touch the tool, and should line up with this index mark:



Bolt disassembly and reassembly complete, make sure everything works before you fire it with live rounds.
  #8  
Old July 17th, 2012, 05:09 AM
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Cleaning rod assembly.

This little pouch contains everything needed except for patches and cleaning solvent to clean you're Mosin Nagant rifle, I'll tell you an interesting tidbit of this rifle in the next couple posts:



This is the cleaning rod that should come with you're rifle, it screws in right under the barrel:



Here is the t-handle for the rod:



The piece that the t-handle sits in on the rod:



Cleaning jag:



This is the piece that centers the cleaning rod in the bore, basically keeps it from coming in contact with the crown:



So, assembling the cleaning rod, here goes.

Slip the long cylindrical piece on that the handle fits in:



Lineup the holes in both:



Push the handle through, this shows that there is a flat spot in the handle, that is the stopping point:



Put you're centering piece on now:



Screw the jag on and you'll notice there is a notch in the bottom of it:



Yep, here we are again, I told you these Soviets wanted one simple freaking tool to do everything on this rifle, take you're tool and with the 4th notch(the biggest) tighten the jag.

Another pic of the notch on the jag:



You're cleaning rod is now fully assembled!







This is the cleaning rod that was used in the field, probably not a match to the rifle you have, but they were used exactly like this, I prefer to use a bore brush when cleaning these, but I don't think you'll ever make it completely quit showing color on patches no matter how much you scrub it, I've gone through 4 brushes on this thing and the best I've gotten is a light brown, considerably down from the black and green it once had . But these rifles are $100 or less rifle's, they aren't range guns or anything fancy, I plan on using mine for hog hunting, just don't use the surplus Spitzer bullet 174gr ammo, the FMJ doesn't expand enough....
  #9  
Old July 17th, 2012, 05:51 AM
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Rifle takedown.

So you want to take you're rifle down, by this I mean, remove the handguard, barrel bands, magazine w/ hinged floorplate, and the rifle completely out of the stock, you picked it up at the local FFL packed full of cosmoline, so it has to be done, how fun is that shit!

You'll notice on the rifle, by the barrel bands there are the springs:





For those who don't know where the bands and the springs are I'm speaking of:



Remember our mighty tool? Incase you didn't notice, it has a screwdriver(flathead, also known as Standard) on the front of it:





You can use this to depress the springs holding the barrel bands on:



So, depress the rearmost one, then slide the barrel band forward, off of the spring:



Front band(bigger of the two):



Now slide them both off onto the barrel:





Lift the handguard off of the rifle and set it aside:





Now we move onto the screws holding the rifle to the stock, there are two, and they go into the magazine w/ the hinged floorplate:



That is in the top, you must/should have the bolt removed in order to access it, unscrew it with you're mighty tool.

Next screw is on the bottom, on the magazine itself:



Screws, bottom first then top:





Here is our magazine removed from the rifle, it just pulls straight down out of the bottom:





Magazine floorplate where the original S/N is, you'll notice mine is a strikethrough/forcematch, this was done during the Arsenal Refinishing:



Once done the barrel and action can be lifted as one out of the stock, take extreme care not to lose this little pin:



It goes into this hole on the trigger, IIRC it's the pivot pin for the trigger, as you can see looking through the hole, it keeps it inline and lets it pivot:



Stock, you'll notice all kinds of marks in these stocks, some are Import/Export marks, some no one knows about, seems all records on the marking's of these rifle's are completely gone, and no one alive knows all of the exact markings, though some are known:







If you look very closely in that last pic, you'll see there is a different piece of wood laminated into the stock at the very top right hand side, that piece broke and was fixed during the Arsenal Refinish.

Back to the floorplae/magazine, you want to know how to remove the floorplate?

With magazine in hand like shown:



Press the tab on the right side towards the right and it will lift up like thus:



Now to remove the spring, squeeze it together:



And slide out at an angle. That little tidbit I was going to tell you about, the second mans name in the name of this rifle, Leon Nagant, here it is:

The 3-line rifle, Model 1891, its original official designation, was adopted by the Russian Military in 1891. There have been several variations from the original rifle, the most common being the M1891/30, which was designed in 1930. Some details were borrowed from Nagant's design. One such detail is the attachment of the magazine spring to the magazine base plate. In Mosin's original design the spring was not attached to the base plate and, according to the Commission, could be lost during cleaning. Another detail is the form of the clip that could hold five cartridges to be loaded simultaneously into the magazine.


The other is the form of the "interrupter", a detail in the feeding mechanism preventing stoppages due to feeding two cartridges at the same time. The initial rifle proposed by Nagant lacked an interrupter, leading to numerous failures to feed. This detail, as well as the new configuration of the feed mechanism, was introduced in the rifle, borrowing from Mosin's rifle. Although the form of the interrupter was slightly changed, this alteration was subsequently borrowed back by the Commission for the Model 1891 Mosin Nagant. During the modernization of 1930 the form of the interrupter was further changed as the part had turned out to be one of the least reliable parts of the action. Only the clip loading cartridges and the attachment of the magazine spring to the magazine base plate in subsequent models were designed by Nagant. Considering the rifle could be easily loaded without using a clip, one cartridge after another, the magazine spring attached to the magazine base plate is the only contribution of Nagant to all rifles after 1930.

If you want to read more, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosin_Nagant click that and it will tell you everything about the history of this mighty rifle.

Now back onto the spring.

Here it is uncompressed, this is why you can't remove it without squeezing it:



Here it is compressed:



Notice how it's curved, you have to rotate it at an angle and lift it out.

That concludes the disassembly, you can now de-cosmofy you're rifle, reassembly is reverse, c'mon, it's not hard now is it?

Need any help or anything, post up in this thread!

Here are a few more pics of my rifle:

Rear sight:





That is in Meter's, the Dragoon rifles(early 1891's, before 1930) used Arshin's as they're form of measurement.

The receiver with the year stamp, the Izhevsk manufacture mark and the S/N:



The little "r" beside 1944 is the Russian acronym(sic?) for "God" which means "Year".
  #10  
Old July 17th, 2012, 01:37 PM
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I tried to get a pic of the bore outside today, not very good, I think I'll try it again later on in the house..



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