Quantcast Wheel hop / axle rap - Ford Truck Club Forum




Home






Forum






Gallery






Garage






Blog






Arcade






Settings






New Posts






TOTM






Vote




Remember Me?
       Join for free!




Search






How-To's






Unanswered






FTC Toolbar






Social Sites






Register




 
Ford Truck Club Forum > FORD F-250 | F-350 SERIES | SUPER DUTY > 1948-1986 Ford F250 | F350



Welcome to FordTruckClub.net
Welcome to FordTruckClub.net, the internet's premier Ford truck community! You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view discussions and access other forum features. By joining our free online community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

Forgot your password? click here.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old September 6th, 2013, 02:37 PM
TwoStroke's Avatar
TwoStroke TwoStroke is offline
 

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Westrichland, WA.
Posts: 26
Likes : 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default Wheel hop / axle rap

Hey you all I have, I'd guess an easyer question then my last post about crosover steering on the Highboy. What is a good cheep way to stop wheel hop on an older truck? I notest that there is alot of hop due to a lot of power from the 460. Is their a kit? Any ideas or suggestions? Just something I need to address soon.

"Anyone who stops learning is old, whether at twenty or eighty. Anyone who keeps learning stays young. The greatest thing in life is to keep your mind young."
-Henry Ford

“The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.”
-G.K. Chesterton
  #2  
Old September 6th, 2013, 04:47 PM
JSoko's Avatar
JSoko JSoko is offline

 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 15,010
Images: 629
Likes : 34
Liked 187 Times in 169 Posts
Default

this is something I know all to well
and from years of drag racing on the street & strip and before me my Dad we have finally found the cure, though each Truck/Car is different due to weight ratio, suspension and HP. Some may not agree with me but I have learned from experience and the knowledge of older mentors.

What doesn't get rid of wheel hop?
A lot of people throw the wrong parts at the Truck/car in an effort to eliminate wheel hop. First, springs and sway bars will generally not do anything to promote or prevent wheel hop. Tires do not cause wheel hop, though they do determine the grip level at which wheel hop occurs. For example, race tires, with their increased grip over street tires, will not break traction until you reach a higher level of acceleration. Some people might think that race tires solved their wheel hop problems, but in truth they merely changed their "wheel hop acceleration threshold" from a level below their launch acceleration to a level above their launch acceleration. Once they increase their horsepower to the point where they can accelerate enough to once again reach that threshold, their wheel hop will return.

Limited-slip differentials will also not prevent wheel hop. They may increase the acceleration threshold at which wheel hop occurs (much like installing race tires), but once again an increase in horsepower will eventually reintroduce the problem.

How do I get rid of wheel hop?
Getting rid of wheel hop really isn't difficult. If you can limit the motion of the wheel with respect to the chassis, then the toe changes during acceleration will be small and the tire will not suddenly lose grip. If the tire does lose grip (common on a high-HP car of course), then it won't suddenly regain grip due to the wheel moving back to it's static position. How do you keep the wheel from moving with respect to the chassis? Well, assuming your car has reasonably rigid suspension arms, then all you need to look at are the suspension bushings! The wheel can move with respect to the chassis because the bushings flex...especially old, stock rubber bushings. Sometimes simply replacing old rubber bushings with new rubber bushings is all that is required. However, on a modified car that posesses more horsepower than the designer's intended, upgrading to stiffer materials like nylon or polyurethane may be required. The ultimate solution is to use rod ends or spherical bearings at every suspension joint, but that is unreasonable unless your car will never again see public roadways. Anyway, by simply upgrading your bushings, the suspension bushings will not flex as much under strong acceleration, the wheel will not move far forward in the wheel well, the toe of the car will not appreciably change, and your tires will not lose grip. Wheel hop will have been eliminated.

In some cases weak shocks can allow a perturbed wheel to continue hopping up and down since the motion is not damped. This is a less likely scenario, but shocks should not be ruled out as a potential culprit.
Check your shocks. If they are not malfunctioning, then you need to increase your bushing stiffness.

if that don't work you need to limit the rotation of the differential housing. by limiting the amount of rear rotation of the diff you will see an improvement, you will need some type of ridgid stop set up. Traction, Slapper, Ladder Bars will help but you can't just forget about the other moving/flexing part mentioned above.
All types work by limiting the amount of rear rotation of the differential so the springs can't wrap up.

and don't neglect the shocks and bushings

if all else fails go with a skinnier tire
or add some weight in the rear
try 16 cinder blocks, stacked 8 on 8 next to the tail gate; try this and tell me what it does


For Those Who Fought For It...
Freedom Has A Taste The Protected Will Never Know.













Last edited by JSoko; September 6th, 2013 at 05:03 PM.
  #3  
Old September 6th, 2013, 05:37 PM
TwoStroke's Avatar
TwoStroke TwoStroke is offline
 

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Westrichland, WA.
Posts: 26
Likes : 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Thank you for the great information J. I like the fact you don't just jump to the most extreme I.e. ladder bars and what not. The springs are the originals and I'm planing on a 4" lift with springs in the back instead of blocks. At that time I'll instal poly bushings and greasable shackles for extended service life. The truck will be driven on the street but will be used mostly for offroad and hunting. Shockes will also need to be upgraded as will. Is there a particular type you suggest? Would you think a duel setup in the back would help?

"Anyone who stops learning is old, whether at twenty or eighty. Anyone who keeps learning stays young. The greatest thing in life is to keep your mind young."
-Henry Ford

“The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.”
-G.K. Chesterton
  #4  
Old September 6th, 2013, 09:03 PM
JSoko's Avatar
JSoko JSoko is offline

 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 15,010
Images: 629
Likes : 34
Liked 187 Times in 169 Posts
Thumbs up

dual shocks are not worth the install $ for what they do on a Truck
a Mustang a maybe big Yes

keep in mind the higher you lift, you do one of two things
shift weight (like we did on old Satellites & Chevelle's) lift the rear to squat the weight to the tires, but that only worker if we used air/bags in the shocks or spring spacer to keep the rear suspension tight/ridged
[in fact you could, if you did the right thing make a open rear act as a posi]
,
lifting the rear will not help your situation (wheel hop)
wheel hop is a very hard thing to overcome
infact, sometimes going outside the box cures it (non logical) only street time will give you the out come
main thing is to not give up trying different stuff


For Those Who Fought For It...
Freedom Has A Taste The Protected Will Never Know.












  #5  
Old September 6th, 2013, 09:33 PM
TwoStroke's Avatar
TwoStroke TwoStroke is offline
 

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Westrichland, WA.
Posts: 26
Likes : 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

I think I get what you're saying. But wouldn't a shock on both sides of the axle absorb some of the axle twist in both direction unlike just a single shock on the input side of the axle asorbing motion in just one direction? Just a thought.

"Anyone who stops learning is old, whether at twenty or eighty. Anyone who keeps learning stays young. The greatest thing in life is to keep your mind young."
-Henry Ford

“The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.”
-G.K. Chesterton
  #6  
Old September 6th, 2013, 10:08 PM
JSoko's Avatar
JSoko JSoko is offline

 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 15,010
Images: 629
Likes : 34
Liked 187 Times in 169 Posts
Default

yeah but it takes strategic placement and good inside workings on a Truck
do the weight first and you'll be surprised that it may go smooth

but you'll loose time in the 1/4 due to the weight but you'll do better than what you would run with hop; not to mention the overall tearing up of stuff


For Those Who Fought For It...
Freedom Has A Taste The Protected Will Never Know.












  #7  
Old September 6th, 2013, 10:50 PM
TwoStroke's Avatar
TwoStroke TwoStroke is offline
 

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Westrichland, WA.
Posts: 26
Likes : 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Ok J I think we had a com failure. The truck is for offroad recreational use. I'm not going to race it. I wanted to stop wheel hop during hill climbing. It's all about traction control for inproved traction without losing articulation. You know how Ford has the solid font axle on the dent side F150 coil springs. It has the bar kind of like a lader bar. I was wondering if I could use them but reverse it and use it on the back axle? I think it would eliminate axle rap without losing articulation. What do you think?

"Anyone who stops learning is old, whether at twenty or eighty. Anyone who keeps learning stays young. The greatest thing in life is to keep your mind young."
-Henry Ford

“The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.”
-G.K. Chesterton
  #8  
Old September 6th, 2013, 11:16 PM
JSoko's Avatar
JSoko JSoko is offline

 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 15,010
Images: 629
Likes : 34
Liked 187 Times in 169 Posts
Default

your not going to lose hop going up hill on dirt unless you have 4 WD
your too light in the ass end

or you have to keep up speed to keep from spinning/slipping
then all yuo do is bounce around


For Those Who Fought For It...
Freedom Has A Taste The Protected Will Never Know.












  #9  
Old September 7th, 2013, 06:58 AM
JSoko's Avatar
JSoko JSoko is offline

 

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 15,010
Images: 629
Likes : 34
Liked 187 Times in 169 Posts
Default

I like and have used Monroe shocks for years


For Those Who Fought For It...
Freedom Has A Taste The Protected Will Never Know.














Thread Tools
Display Modes


(View-All Members who have read this thread : 8
ASwaff400 , bikertrash3531 , glc , JSoko , Klitch , mrtief , oakley61f100 , TwoStroke

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FX4 wheel swap superdutydude2 1999-2007 Ford F250 | F350
2 May 13th, 2013 03:53 AM
Need a new wheel and an alignment DoubleDee Garage Talk: Wheels & Tires 24 September 22nd, 2012 12:14 AM
1997 F350 4x4 Front Axle Swap to 1998 4x4 front axle HARLEY589 New Member Introductions 13 January 27th, 2012 10:52 AM
Wheel Bearings Orlin 1997-2003 Ford F150
3 February 27th, 2010 11:02 AM
How Well Do You Know Your Wheel? nine5flareside Garage Talk: General Tech Talk 0 November 4th, 2009 10:59 PM

Tags
axle , hop , rap , wheel

Forum Jump









FordTruckClub.net is not authorized, endorsed or affiliated with the Ford Motor Company
or any of their subsidiaries. Ford® is a registered trademark of the Ford Motor Company


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6 Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.